forget mine, "the joy of hate" each book comes with 330 page numbers. next is bill o'reilly, and don't forget, the spinning stops here because we're looking out for you. >> tonight, now is the single best time and best opportunity to defeat obama care. >> if the president's not going to implement the law, we're not going to fund it. >> welcome to groundhog day in the house of representatives. >> this law is not working, you would have to take republicans word for it. >> taking something like 40

meaningless notes to repeal obama care, is not a job plan. >> president obama will scream and yell that the mean, nasty republicans are threatening to shut down the government. and at that point, we have to stand up and win the fight. >> we're sitting here, wasting time and taxpayer dollars trying to find any possible reading of the law, a technicality, to take away health care from the people who need it most. >> i don't think you can say you're against obama care, if you vote for a budget that funds it. and i think it's outrageous that the president and his allies are threatening to shut down the american government if it doesn't fund obama care. >> senators co-burn and mccain categorize the house's efforts to defund the aca as dishonest and hype. >> for us to force this on the american people, when they're having a hard time finding work is the wrong approach, absolutely the wrong approach. >> now when it really matters, this is the time to stop obama

care from hurting more americans across the country. >> obama care has returned to the forefront of american politics. doctors are threateninging to close down their practices, many business owners they're facing a time and a future of very costly regulations, with all that in mind, tonight, we have asem bld -- business owners and much more. and some support obama care, others are strong pro opponents of the law, but in the next 60 minutes, we're all on one roof in new york studios. thank you for being here. all right, now, dr. siegel. the president made some promises about obama care,.

>> we promised americans better health care, we got them, more expensive insurance, we promised them more doctors and nurses. >> the ones that are on the refrigerator that said to me, i want to be able to have coverage. now they're ending up with part-time jobs, they're ending up worrying about whether they're going to have insurance at all. >> you understand the finances of this? >> will businesses really not be able to hire full-time workers. as a result of not wanting to meet that 30-hour requirement. >> if you're a small business, your margins are small. therefore you don't have the

ability, if you have a large profit margin to do this. and in the face of uncertainty, you hold back and see how actually this thing is going to unfold. bigger companies, our companies are suddenly facing taxes this year or next year that we didn't really know about and now we're learning about it. so everybody's getting hit with uncertain costs. >> first of all, look, we needed to do something in this country about run away costs in this country, as welt as the 35 million uninsured people. it was a plan that came originally from republicans. they liked it when it was a republican plan. it's done thing that the american people like. they like the rebates they've gotten, the preexisting conditions won't throw people off of insurance. it's proper, and in an effort to keep repealing it again and again and again.

>> there's nobo ee's nobody tha that has read this law page for page. >> i would say this, the positive reforms that sally just mentioned are in the first 30 pages of this 2,572-page law and virtually everyone in congress would support making those reforms. but the next congress of the united states should take a pledge that they will not sinai bill into law that contains all these gobbledy gook. the washington politicians keep saying they want comprehensive health reform. >> how much does that thing weigh? >> you know what comprehensionive means, sean? i means unread. >> who wants to comment on the

act wares. in washington, 106%. 86% in ohio. >> actually, sean, it's a big deal, when you look at how the law was calculated, the unintentioned economic consequences of obama care is disaster house. employers are shifting to part-time. what insurance companies are doing to increase premiums and game the system. all of the assumptions on which the law was passed, saying it's actually going to state of money are completely flawed. so the cbo needs to go back and recalculate that. >> the original estimate was, 900 billion, remember the president tried latest cbo number that i saw was 2.8 trillion. the number's going higher. was that a broken promise? >> we really need to go back to this point of the actuaries. it drives up the cost of

insurance by a dramatic amount. in states like colorado and texas and florida. the cost of individual ly -- its for new tax hikes. >> monica, go ahead. >> let's take a step back and remember what this is really about. let's take a look at the big picture. obama in 2008 spoke about the fundment transformation of the nation. health care was his greatest lever in order to affect that. that's why he did out immediately. obama care was never about health care, health insurance or health reform. it was only and solely and still is about government power and control. when you look at the history of authoritarian regimes, one of the first things they do when they seize power is seize

control of the health care system, for one simple reason. if the government controls your health care, the government controls you, period. >> i'm going to bring up that 10 yerld -- >> it's going to be funded on the backs of young americans. folks under 35 years old, men and women. that e that's. >> a study just came out that 26-year-olds are going to have to cover 80% of their premiums. if you got sick, you would go to the emergency room and you would get cover -- >> this was called the baucus bill. and he's calling it a train wreck.

>> the premiums, the cbo has lowered it, it has been considered an independent analysis of premiums. a lot republican states that are trying to make a case gerjs obama care. >> point number two, my point would be really interesting, if perhaps the government had take enover health -- helped the marketplace work better by allowing more companies to come into new york where they have been excluded. if you don't like this idea, i would like to hear another solution. >> let me ask you -- government -- what would you grade the government on social security in our lock box?

what would you grade them. >> 67% of americans don't want to get rid of social security. >> didn't the same people say they were going to put that money aside, spend it, squander it, if they were in the private sector they would be in jail, hanged cuffed, perp walked. >> why do you trust the government when they have failed -- we have 17 trillion in debt, 50 million americans on food stamps and social security and medicare are going bankrupt. >> you drove here on a highway, we have electricity, we have a cable system. >> if obama had his way, i would not be standing here today. >> medicare, social security, when they were passed, republicans said okay that's socialism. >> back to your point about single parents, barack obama has been on the record for years saying this is -- a lot of left

leaning democrats were up in arms that we didn't have single pair. barack obama picked up the phone and told them that they were ultimately going to get there. this is a way to accelerate the process to get us to full socialized medicine. >> we're going to get this in the full hour. we're going to take over the front lines in the battle to fund obama care. we' we're going to talk to two physicians who are going to tell us how they're trying to stop this law from actually being implemented. we're going to be shining the spotlight on obama care by the numbers, stay with us. ♪

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ask your doctor about prescription toviaz. one toviaz pill a day significantly reduces sudden urges and accidents, for 24 hours. if you have certain stomach problems or glaoma, or can not empty your bladd, you should not take toviaz. get emergency medical help right away if your face, lips, throat or tongue swells. toviaz can cause blurred vision, dizziness, drowsiness and decreased sweating. do not drive,perate machinery or do unsafe tasks until you ow how toviaz affects you. the most common side effects are dry mouth and constipation. talk to your doctor about toviaz. >> i think it's clear that congress has the power?

>> the right to responsibility. the power is a different question. the right and responsibility under the constitution, wouldn't you say that is clearly within the four squares of our constitution? >> i think particularly the word responsibility is putting a spin on it that i don't think is necessary. and i wouldn't necessarily want to add to it. but you certainly have the power. >> that was legal expert and obama care supporter simon laz rhett on capitol hill this week. even he was forced to admit that capitol hill had to cut off the funding for this train wreck that comes my way. two medical doctors in their own right, wyoming senator barrasso. senator, what about the effort? let's talk about mike lee, ted cruise, rand paul, marco rubio and yourself. you believe it's constitutional that you can defund this?

>> i think it's important that we defund this. i don't think it goes far enough. we have to rip this thing out by the roots, and that goes with not just defunding it, but also repealing all of the other parts of the law as well. >> congressman, you thoughtses. >> we talk about the 40 repeal of funding bills that congress has taken on. actually several of those have been passed and signed into law by the president. it actually, bit by bit, we have been eroding this. we would come up to a pivot point on the third of september, the federal government runs out, has to be reupped. the next day the open enrollment period exchanges. i submit to you that this is not going to be working by october is, and oh, by the way, on

september 15, or thereabouts, people in my state of texas will begin to see what their fall rates are. and there's going to be some sticker shock. >> let me ask you, senator, about the president, he unilaterally decided, even though it's the law of the land, that he was going to unilatery l unilaterally decide that he was going do delay the employer mandate. not the individual mandate. doesn't he have to go through congress? don't we have a system of checks and balances? doesn't he have to go to congress for is that. >> i would like to repeal the original mandate that everyone in the country has to buy government imposed insurance. what i want as a doctor is affordable care and access to care, and people get neither under this health care law, which is why unions are bailing on this, they have come out against the president, so many

democrats are spoken out against it. you have had democrats in the house voting to extend this delay of the employer mandate by another year as well as the individual mandate. this is unraveling and it's not just republicans, it's independents, it's democrats, it's unions. sean even the state of massachusetts, the democrats there have put in for a waiver so they don't have to live under the health care law. and the other reason to defund this is the city of detroit, which is bankrupt, they want to fund some of their bailout by dumping people on to obama care and the funding stream. >> congressmen, there are some of your colleagues that seem timid, they think this is the wrong strategy, i had a debate earlier this week with karl rove, he thinks it's the worst law that's passed in our time, i agree with him. they said it was sold and predicated on a bunch of lies told to the american people. he thinks strategically it

should be done different, not in the effort of defunding. every conservative i know wants republicans to defund it. so where are your colleagues on this? >> well, it may literally be the only tool in the toolbox to try to keep the train wreck from happening. and, you know, look, you see the train wreck coming down the track, aren't you going to try to do something to keep that from occurring? the law was never poplar, it's never enjoyed popular support. it's going to get worse when people understand -- right now you go to health care.gov in my state, and you try to click and see what it's going to cost you in the open enrollment period, it comes and says this page is empty. on september 15, when people go to that page and see how much that premium has increased, last january was $360, i guarantee you it's going up. and it will be worse in

september of 2014, leading into the 2014 elections. the democrats will be clamoring for this thing to be refunded and repealed by then. >> the last question, the president's delay of the employer mandate, it's going to cost us $12 billion. maybe in the world of trillion dollar deficits, that doesn't sound like a lot of money. >> i will predict to you tonight, sean that, just as we had the fourth of july surprise with this delay of the employer mandate, i will predict to you there will be additional surprises coming out. >> all right, thank you for being with us, appreciate your insights. >> coming up r next on this special edition of hannity straight ahead. >> our cost measure mirrors.

>> reduces most people's premiums, we're spending our health care dollars more wisely. >> we put together a -- we'll ask our studio audience to response to this embarrassing tape on this special edition of hannity. i'll just press this, and you'll save on both. ding! ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, llllet's get ready to bundlllllle... [ holding final syllable ] oh, yeah, sorry! let's get ready to bundle and save. now, that's progressive. oh, i think i broke my spleen! home insurance provided and serviced by third party insurers.

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nothing in this plan will -- that's why my proposal builds on the current system, where most americans get their health insurance from their employer. if you like your plan, you can keep your plan. we will start by reducing premiums by as much as 2,500 per family. >> that's why i met with representatives of insurance and drug companies, doctors and

hospitals and labor unions who are pledging to do their part to reduce health care costs. reduces most people's premiums and bringing down our deficit by 1 trilli$1 trillion over the ne decade. >> fortunately this was only a one-hour special, otherwise that highlight reel with broken promises would have gong on all night long. we go back to our studio audience. let's see, one of the things we have learned is that 30 million americans still will remain uninsur uninsured. that 2,500 saving most people -- >> we had two decades of double digit health insurance. we had two decades of health care costs exceeding real wage

increases. clearly something needed to be done. there are some very good parts of this bill that moves us from a fee for service bill. we have to change the system and while we might not like some parts of the bill, we have too retain the ones that we do. >> part of the problem of this big is that this bill is not ready. that's why they delayed the reporting requirements. they have already scrapped big elements of this bill. the heart of the exchange, they're not ready to go. they want to force people to buy insurance from a system that's going to be a complete and utter mess. there are 12% of americans who think keeping the employer mandate for next year is the right thing do do. this is a president who got elected saying we hate the 1%. i'm for the regular guy, i'm for fairness. what could be more fundamental fairness -- than obama gave to

the giant 1% corporation? >> how many here would support congress and the senate's effort to defund? hands up. steve forbes, i want to see your hand up, you're surprising me. >> i believe they should try the defunding, but i don't think they should go to the wall on it. because i think obama wants to have a government shutdown in his campaign ruled by decree and discredit congress. so i hope they get their tacticses right. >> the president does not have the constitutional authority to pick and choose which parts of the law he enforces, the law says the mandate begins june 1. so congress actually has a constitutional duty to defund, the constitution says it, it's part of checks and balances, in federalist 58, james madison said, when the president overreaches and tries to grab more power than the constitution allows, it is the duty of congress to defund. to withhold the power of the purse. >> let me go to kiesha. i'm going to get back to mr. forbes. >> as a small business owner, i was really excited to hear about

obama care, but i will admit that one of the biggest problems is if no one understands it, i speak to every day people, they don't understand, okay, how much will the premiums be? how much will they get out of this law? it's clear, it's too much. but i think the intent is good. >> i thought i was here for politicians behaving badly. but when i found out why i was here, i -- right, i started asking around, do you understand obama care? >> nobody really understands it, people -- >> we do understand it's going to cost more? >> we do understand it's going to be 30 million uninsured. >> understand it's going to cost us a lot of money that we don't have to spend right now. >> steve forbes, what i'm surprised about with you is if republicans don't fight on this and there are political considerations, what do they stand for?

>> it's not fighting, it's how you fight. and the way that you set the foundation to win this thing in 2014 to remove it's legitimacy. they voted on the employer mandate, now they're voting on the individual mandate. now they're going do go to the irs. they're going send them to the senate, and somewhere the senate reject them. and there's also a very interest interesting lawsuit coming out of oklahoma. the states cannot r not be -- 34 states have not put in the exchanges. that nekt defunds the whole thing. support that oklahoma lawsuit. >> let's hear it. >> also in the d.c. federal district court case. if you can topple that and take away -- the mana from heaven are the tax credit premium payments.

if you can't deliver the bucks to people, that's where it dries up. that's a choke point in an end game. the problem with defunding is don't take a hostage if you're not ready to shoot him. >> this law is just not ready for prime time. one of the things they most want to do, is to get young people enrolled in the exchanges. that's why the president is talking about getting the nba. >> hundreds of millions of dollars we should spend on advertising? >> we are going to find out what this law means, that's what's happening with small businesses, they're having to put people on part-time. individuals, especially health ey see the size of the premium they're going to have to pay for health insurance, they're going to say $3,000, $95 for a fine, give me a break. >> first of all, these young people are home anyway because they don't have jobs. >> they don't have jobs, exactly

right. >> their moms and dads would love to get them out of the house. >> the flexible staffing industry, a person businesses are not going to hire people. >> this is good for your business. >> it's good for our business, but not good for america. and that's the important thing, are we for interested in our business or america. i'm more interested in america than i am in our own business. 94% of all the companies over 50 employees had health insurance. there's only 6% of them that was going to affect anybody. we have health insurance in our company for every temporary associate. >> i worked for manpower once, i needed a job for a short period. they gave me a sickle, they said see that grass? go cut it. >> we have 80,000 employees a day. >> let me take a break, i promise we'll get to everybody.

and the campaign to derail obama care has now taken over the air waive waves. we'll get reaction from our studio audience. we want to get -- follow the show, share your thoughtses on obama care or you can join us on twitter at sean hannity. ♪

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that is a brand-new television ad from the conservative group, americans for prosperity. tim phillips is right here in our studio audience. >> they have all the information, and so we want to make sure the costs are going to go up. this is just part of an effort, we're going to have thousands of volunteers talking to these young americans who are being

the target of obama care. we have to make sure exactly what they're signing up, so hopefully they won't signing up for it. that's another good way to defund this law. >> if they use the backdoor, remember scott brown was supposed to be the 41st vote against obama care. >> it was crumpet from the beginning and we lost out. >> yes, sorry. >> so i'm a business owner. >> what kind of business, do you -- government contracts, we provide security services throughout the united states. i hear that there's uncertainty, and maybe there is, because as a business owner, i'm required to provide an insurance carrier. so i'm not responsible for paying it, actually for the employee, so there's no way a small business who understands what they're doing is going to sensibly say i'm going to cut back from 52 employees down to

48. so my point, sean, no informed business person is going to do that. no informed business person is going to make that decision. >> i'm talking about people who understand what they're talking about. i have insurance carriers knocking on my door trying to explain to me and explain to my hr department exactly what's going on with obama care. >> jimmy hoffa jr. in his letter to the president, is he i don't think? >> i'm not familiar with the letter. he may be wrong. but at the heart of this political football that we're doing, is we want to as an

advanced society, we want people to have affordable insurance. >> 30 million americans will still have this planning. wasn't that one of the big problems with obama care? >> i have a solution, it would be personal savings accounts. >> personal responsibility would be very important here, extending entitlements, very comprehensive environments. i think after two years of this debate, or three years now. in doctor's offices across the country. we're the engines driving this and if you can't get in to see us, or we're ordering very expensive tests that are variable prices. >> the american colleges of physicians -- >> go ahead, ryan. >> i'm a business owner, i've got 120 employees. i pay for 100% of my employees

insurance premiums. i've got 120 employees. about 300 on the total plan. i'm a mid year renewal, blue cross blue shield has increased our premiums 31%, sean. >> what are you going to do? >> i'm looking for options. >> they'll have a more inferior plans, they won't be able to offer as many benefits. >> at the end of the day, they're going to be in worse shape. >> all you have to look at is the white house is in panic mode right now, they know public opinion is shattered, even in the president e's own state,

people want it repealed. you know what he said there? he said -- >> he said his biggest goal, his biggest goal is to get nancy pelosi as speaker of the house again to protect obama care. he knows it's crumbling. and that's why this next election is critical. >> i actually want to see the republicans fight. >> i want to see them defund it. i want them to engage the american people, fight back against the propaganda. >> we'll take a break and one thing i want to talk about when i get back is the issue of death panels. we'll come back with much more from our studio audience. for pain and swelling? apply cold therapy in the first 24 hours.

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the administration has the authority to simply decline to impment a division of law required. >> the executive branch is

required to faithfully administer the laws that are patched by congress providing it's constitutional. >> that was a law professor testifying before the house oversight committee earlier this week. and to be clear, the president does not have the authority to delay the implementation of the employer mandate or any other provision of obama care. we continue with our studio audience? >> she has cystic fibrosis, a doctor said that an adult transplant would work. kathleen sebelius would not grant her the waiver. >> 1311 of this law empowerings health and human services to

dictate how we preet. the government is still going to be calling some of the shots and like you just pointed out, some doctors arie ingoing to be trap between doing what's right and the will of a government panel. >> this law is about sacrifices. there is no way that we can cover everyone. i'm a physician and a small business owner and i can tell you that i meet people every day that don't have insurance coverage. these people are not worried about their premiums they're worried about having coverage overall. these people are going to come to the er and our costs are going to be teng times as high. >> shared sacrifice. i feel like we're in the soviet union.

they have a government rationing body. let's say a woman comes in and she needs a hip replacement, and she's beyond the age of -- does she get that knee replacement? no, she does not. >> she gets it if she has a buddy in congress or a friend in the government bureaucracy. cronyism is rampant iner area of the government. they know the guys with connections will get the treatments. the average guy won't. >> did you hear about the case that was the head of one of the provinces in canada and they needed heart work and he went to miami? >> i've got a lot of friends in canada and it takes them six months to even get into the doctor. and they real did nontd like the plan they have but they don't have any choice. >> what about coverage? this is what the president made

coverage for every individual that it automatically trangs translates into getting health care and it doesn't. why was the employer mandate deferred? because the employer the small business could provide the least amount of benefit and if the consumer opts not to take that and they go to exchange, they're going to pay more. and they can't afford to pay more. so this loophole caused this stir to say this dublt work. >> sam. >> we have small business owners on the panel. and we work with my company with a ton of small businesses. >> what company are you with? >> we do sports training, so we work with a number of sports. >> you're a rich republican? >> i try. >> but i want to say one thing, the biggest challenge with small business owners right now, what's happening with everything in washington and the news cycle is owners are taking their minds off generating revenue. that's one thing i don't think

it gets missed that small business owners, this thing is going to get multiplied by owners taking their eyes off the ball. >> a couple of points, first of all, president obama, way back at the beginning was talking about his mother and the care she supposedly would have gotten from ovarian/uterine cancer. now we come forward, the independent payment advisory board, it turns out it's going to be filled with bureaucrats, nonpracticing physicianings. even the shrill voice of dr. howard dean. that's the ration we're facing now. facing. >> let's be clear that -- >> hang on. one second. >> medium and small companies. they're going to go to two things. 29-hour workweek or get another 49 hours and put them on a temporary payroll. >> let's be clear that over half this law is paid for with cuts to medicare. that is not a shared sacrifice.

section -- >> a billion dollars. >> section 3000a of this law actually award bonus points to the hospitals that spend the least per senior. not the least per patient. >> we get our operations and say your bypass was successful, mr. hannity, go home. >> what is the solution? >> what is the ultimate solution for the problem of so many americans not having health insurance? >> i think the answer is we stop this because it won't work. i prefer medical savings accounts for catastrophic care and build the money up over a lifetime. >> someone needs to educate the public on that. >> the problem with that is if people don't have preventative care -- >> patient accounts incentivized preventative care. >> i don't want the government -- >> i'm sorry. go ahead. >> what kind of health care i have. i want options. >> we really haven't had for decades. that's real free markets in

health care like we have in food. turning scarcity into abundance. that means that real free markets and real safety nets. >> crossing state lines. >> if we have good health care, we wouldn't have to force people to buy it. we wouldn't need a mandate if it's worth while for people. >> our final segment as we continue on the special edition of "hannity." we're glad you're with us. what are you doing back there?

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welcome back to "hannity." our special studio audience. monica crowley, yes? >> we're dealing with socialized medicine. it has nothing whatsoever do with your health care. it's about government control over your life. and i'll give you the perfect example. the irs commissioner this week said that he prefers not to have obama care. he prefers the plan he has. remember that the irs -- >> isn't that amazing? >> abuse of power by targeting conservatives. this is going to be the same bureaucracy that's going to be enforcing your health care. they don't care if you're healthy or have health insurance. it's all about additional revenrenew for the government. we were talking about patient savings accounts. >> you keep it simple. awe lou people to spend money where they think it needs to go. it's about directing them to do it as opposed to opening up. we can subsidize people. were we too pessimistic about

this? look at all the pieces of obama care falling off. there are a dozen figures delayed, deleted or disguised. there's a disharmonic convergence of everyone to be opposed to this. if we stay at this long enough, all the wheels will come off. >> what it's doing to the health sector, but doctors leaving the practice in droves. but also to what's happening to the economy. small business owners have told me that just paying the fine for not purchasing obama care insurance is -- it's bigger than their profit margin. we might as well close our doors. everybody loses their jobs. >> when did we ever get to a point where the government creates a disincentive for people to hire full-time workers at a time when america needs them more than ever. right up here. go ahead. >> one thing i want to mention. with this bill, this idea of shutting down the government to defund obama care, it's not the right strategy. the right thing is to delay the subsidies for years.

the law isn't ready for primetime. >> i'm going to give you your time. >> sure. >> that is not what senator lee is saying. he's saying fund the entire government. defund obama care. >> right. >> that's not shutting down obama care. >> but the senate won't pass that, the president woen sign it. it will be profoundly unpopular. if you delay the subsidies for a year, then the real cost of obama care will come out because the premiums will go up, people will be insulated from the subsidies and there will be a lot of fraud. what the irs has done, what they've done, we're not going to verify your income or eligibility. >> if this takes hold, name me a big government program that has ever been given and taken away. >> that's why you got to delay the subsidies. >> how many times can we allow this president to grab more power than the constitution allows? congress has the responsibility. to uphold and defend the constitution. they have a responsibility to

use that dee funding power to stop this president from violating the law. >> the more americans know about this law, the less they like it. our job is to go out and make sure that at the grassroots, we can be enroll america, the obama administration, all the community organizers, open enrollment starts. i know we're committed to doing that. that's our best chance to win this. at the grassroots. >> it's preventive medicine, doesn't occur at a doctor's office. it occurs with exercise and eating right and losing weight. dieting the way you and i do. that's the way you maintain this. >> you wrote me a note. told me doctor patient confidence. >> yeah. >> that's the whole point. >> didn't like that i was using atkins. >> i don't like atkins. this is how you cut down on health care. >> i was three months pregnant by the time -- >> you look great and you exercise every day. >> i do. >> the more people know about obama care, the more they like it. number two -- >> that's polling. and number two, the majority of

the -- i'm going to finish my thought. the majority of americans do not want to defund it. go ahead, good luck, try it. >> you guys have been great. give yourselves a big hand. thank you very much. as always, thank you for being with us. let not your heart be troubled. here's a man whose policies have done great damage to this country. have done great damage to the american culture. to the american psyche. >> washington doesn't want to find a -- 1/6 of the economy is gone. the government took it. i don't think the rest of the world is enamored with obama. i love radio. radio is the single greatest opportunity i have to be who i am. >> rush limbaugh on the